[Exherbo-dev] GNU coreutils alternatives

Bryan Østergaard bryan.ostergaard at gmail.com
Wed Sep 23 07:47:13 UTC 2015


I'm a bit late to the party but here's my thoughts on the situation.

First of all, I want good solid reasons why we should do this and
everything I've seen so far have been fairly handwavy in my opinion. This
is a rather big change with lots of potential for breakage and so we should
have very solid reasons for doing it.

Second, how many are going to benefit even a little bit from this? I know
of 3 people or so that I've seen raising their hands and saying they're
interested. But I'm not convinced anybody actually *needs* this.

And third, we've already seen tons of breakage from this work. Breakage
that affects all of us And also breakage that a rather large part of us
have trouble solving on our own as it often gets fairly toolchain specific
and few have much experience in that area.

Finally, am I the only one who's noticed several of the breaking changes
borking Jenkins in rather unfortunate ways? This goes way beyond just the
toolchain and it's not possible to just ignore toolchain related updates
until the dust have all settled a few months from now. I'm not the biggest
fan of Jenkins in Exherbo but most people rely heavely on it and they
absolutely shouldn't be affected by toolchain changes like this.

So while I think this work could, in some small way, be interesting I have
seen nothing at all that convinces me we should go forward with this.

And to clarify something I brought up on irc when discussing alternative
coreutils - my biggest concern there isn't actually bugs or small
incompatibilities but rather that everybody is going to be affected by this
again and again going forward. There's absolutely no way every time some
random person runs into some issue they will go directly to Kylie.
Realisticly speaking we're all going to be expected to fix these issues.
For coreutils alternatives I might be willing as going so far as to accept
them but have a rule saying it's in no way supported by Exherbo.

/Bryan

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 4:44 PM, Bernd Steinhauser <
exherbo at bernd-steinhauser.de> wrote:

> On 18/09/15 09:23, Vasiliy Tolstov wrote:
>
>>
>> 2015-09-17 23:35 GMT+03:00 Bernd Steinhauser <
>> exherbo at bernd-steinhauser.de
>> <mailto:exherbo at bernd-steinhauser.de>>:
>>
>>     I actually had the same question.
>>
>>     On 17/09/15 21:39, Kylie McClain wrote:
>>
>>         On 09/17/2015 03:18 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>>
>>             What is the compelling reason that makes it worth spending
>> any effort
>>             on this?
>>
>>         I have a few, actually.
>>
>>         1. It allows for more choice with respect to core parts of the
>> system. I
>>         wonder how quickly someone's going to crucify me for saying
>> "choice" is
>>         a reason. I believe it is reasonable to provide this option, it's
>> not
>>         that much different from how we provide the choice of libav over
>> ffmpeg,
>>         or libressl over openssl.
>>
>>     Well, this is not Gentoo. We don't like to introduce options just so
>> there
>>     is an option.
>>
>>
>> Yes, this is not gentoo, but if we don't provide alternatives and options
>> -
>> Exherbo have not big difference compared to Archlinux.
>>
> There is a plenty of space between »no alternatives« and »a lot of
> alternatives for stuff that doesn't matter«.
> I'm not saying that we shouldn't provide alternatives. I'm saying that we
> shouldn't provide alternatives for things that don't matter, just because
> we can do so.
>
>>
>>     Does anybody really care about space on an Exherbo system (serious
>> question)?
>>     (We are talking about a few MBs here at most.)
>>
>>
>> I'm care. I'm use exherbo on production to host user vps, and i need to
>> minimize
>> base system , becasue all system goes to memory (diskless host server).
>> SO i need to remove all unneded stuff. And i don't need to full featured
>> compiler and other tools in such case. I'm prebuild all stuff on build
>> host and
>> use it.
>> So please don't think that nobody cares.
>>
> I don't. That's why I was asking. If people say that alternatives for tool
> X matter, then we can certainly think about introducing them. No question
> about that.
>
> But with such a setup you're breaking the system anyway I guess. So the
> question is if alternatives save so much time here?
>
>
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