[Exherbo-dev] Exherbo Impressions ~ From Installation to Uptime

Ciaran McCreesh ciaran.mccreesh at googlemail.com
Fri Mar 5 09:25:57 GMT 2010

On Fri, 5 Mar 2010 17:44:58 +1300
Sess <leycec at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The whole stable / unstable thing's a Gentooism that doesn't really
> > work. When we reach a point where we consider stability to be
> > interesting, we'll probably do something completely different.
> Who doesn't consider stability interesting? I do. (Not as much as,
> say, Debian developers. But I do.)

It's something we might be interested in when we no longer feel the
need to break the package format every other week. Until we have
exheres-1 locked down, which is a way off yet, there's absolutely no
point to it because everything is prone to breakage at a moment's

> What's the issue with Gentoo's stable/unstable dichotomy? The core
> idea of marking known working exheres as "stable" and experimental
> exheres as "unstable" strikes me as fundamentally useful. Is there
> another way?

The problem is that in reality, it's not a dichotomy. Packages aren't
individually either stable or unstable.

> Yes, of course. But is it reasonable to install a X windowing manager
> without an X server? (FVWM, in my case.)


> > There's e4r, if you can't handle the POSIX standard text editor.
> It's not about what I can handle. I handle vim; I handle emacs; heck,
> I handle Eclipse.
> It's about what the average user can handle.

The average user has 1.8 testicles.

> I wasn't aware of "e4r". Looks respectable. Google and the e4r splash
> message suggest this is an Exherbo-specific patch. Perhaps Exherbo
> documentation should mention its existence. Installation instructions
> might be a helpful start...

Sure. Make yourself a clone of docs.git, create a patch and submit it
via either bugzilla or the IRC bot. It'll be reviewed and up on the
website within 24h.

> Installation instructions on a Wiki would be a better start.

No, because then they'd be wrong.

> > Use 'cave show' to get descriptions. Option descriptions mostly
> > live in individual exhereses, not globally, although there is
> > metadata/options/.
> Yes, of course. That's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting some
> mechanism for grepping all uses of some or several options across all
> exheres: e.g., "cave show --type option qt4".

cave show */*[MYOPTIONS<qt4]

and note that it will be extremely slow, unless you have metadata

> > > Tangentially: why the "MY" prefix on "MYOPTIONS"?
> >
> > Because it's a lot less likely to bugger up makefiles than OPTIONS.
> >
> Sweet. Thanks. (Are we really exporting exheres-specific globals to
> Makefiles? I'm surprised Makefiles aren't sandboxed, in some fashion.)

Everything exported in the exheres environment ends up in the
environment of everything the exheres calls, unless you filter it out.
It's a moderate ick that we've inherited from Gentoo and haven't
managed to fix yet.

> > Bugs go upstream. If you don't like 5.x, mask it yourself and
> > maintain 4.x.
> I'm not suggesting that I don't like 5.x. I'm suggesting that 5.x
> significantly breaks backwards compatibility with 4.x. Thus, porting
> "/etc/conf.d/net" from dhcpcd 4.x to 5.x such that the system still
> works is non-trivial.

Eh, that's for people who use /etc/conf.d/net.

> > {*} "inquisitio." Still orders of magnitude slower than Gentoo's
> > "eix."
> > > Ideas why?
> >
> > Because it gives correct answers.
> >
> I don't recall receiving incorrect answers from "eix", but submit it
> may have happened. Once. Maybe twice. On the whole, I would happily
> pay for faster response times with imperceptibly reduced precision.

If you want fast, use 'cave show'. But note that inquisitio is only
slow if you don't have metadata cache generated, which is currently the
case for everything on Exherbo because we've not bothered to start
shipping a central cache yet. If you run 'inquisitio -a monkey' after
every sync, subsequent searches will give answers faster than you can
understand the output.

Ciaran McCreesh
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